When you don’t want to practice is sometimes when it’s most important to get on your mat

Yoga is great! I love it so much and it’s a fundamental part of my day and my life.  Most of the time I enjoy practicing and am happy to get on my mat but it’s unrealistic to think that would I always want to practice. Sometimes I don’t.

Most people don’t experience this when they first start practicing as at this point you are still discovering how amazing it is. Obviously, there are times when not practicing is the right choice. If you are ill for instance. Most of the time however, these are the best practices. They are the ones you need and benefit from the most.

Helen practicing a yoga forward bend

Photograph by Nata Moraru

Yoga has a multitude of benefits that go beyond the general improvements in your health and wellbeing. It is a practice that teaches you to connect with yourself, your body and your mind as they are. This can be incredibly transformational but sometimes you don’t want to see things as they are. Sometimes you want to distract yourself from it and this. I guess this is one of the reasons drinking alcohol and watching tv are such popular pastimes.

Ashtanga yoga is traditionally practiced 6 days a week, which is how I practice. This means I practice on good days and bad. I respect that it is not possible or practical for everyone to commit to practicing daily. What is good then is to commit to the days that you do practice so that you don’t just practice when you feel like it. If you do that you miss out on the opportunity to bring your mind back when it’s distracted, to learn to accept your mind even when it’s chaotic, to accept your body when it’s not at it’s best and to give yourself the practice when it needs it most.

Life isn’t always easy and your yoga practice should reflect that. We practice when we are happy, sad, in love, angry, lonely, lost and busy.  Yoga practice isn’t about perfection it’s about being present with whatever you are experiencing at the time.

If my mind is feeling particularly busy, I just take my practice one breath at a time. I let my mind do whatever it is up to. I don’t judge it but whenever it wanders, I just bring it back to my breath. Without fail, in all the years of doing this, I have always been grateful that I practiced.

Do you practice yoga when you don’t want to? How has it helped you?

How to deal with the mental aspect of being injured

I have helped so many students with injuries over the years. As well as helping students with the physical aspect of an injury, and referring for more help when appropriate, I have discovered that there are some common mental aspects to being injured.

Being injured can be a real challenge. If you are injured then you may need to seek out specific advice about how to manage the physical side of the injury. You may need to see a physiotherapist and also talk to your yoga teacher about how to adapt your yoga practice. The range of possible injuries is vast and so I am not going to deal with that here, if you’re my student and need to talk to me about your own individual case then, of course, you can.

If you get injured and you are used to being physically active then there is usually a mental journey that you go on too. You may feel that your progress will be hindered but as yoga is an internal practice usually the opposite is true. It can be difficult to see that at the time but the patience, awareness and compassion you develop from being injured will teach you a great deal about yourself.

Blame

When you get injured it is logical for you to ask why did this happen. It’s good practice and worth asking. If you can find the cause it’s good to learn from it, particularly if you were pushing too hard. Sometimes it’s not your fault! Not every injury is caused by you or someone else doing something wrong, maybe you fell or maybe you just had some underlying imbalance you were unaware of. So take a moment to learn what you can to help you in the future but be compassionate about it – you are not invincible and sometimes things just go wrong.

48 hours rest

trikonasana yoga pose

Don’t be afraid to go back to basics – photo by Nata Moraru

If your injury is severe it is generally advised to rest it as much as possible for 48 hours. Again I am not going into specific injuries here, so seek advice on your individual injury and circumstances. After that, it is generally advised to resume activity but only to the extent that you can do so without aggregating your injury further. This may mean you do a different activity or you modify the activity – you may need help working this out. You need to be prepared to take a step back from your normal practice. It is tempting to rest completely but usually this is not optimal, as exercising helps blood circulation, which in turn helps an injury to heal. However you don’t want to aggravate things further, so I would generally advise you do less than you think you can, and gradually and carefully build back up, under the guidance of you teacher. Mentally you have to be prepared to back off and take it easy, which can be harder than stopping completely. It can seem hard, because you have to face the injury, and it can be frustrating but it’s incredibly useful as a practice because life doesn’t always go as planned. Sometimes you have to keep going when things are not going the way you had planned. You can battle internally with this or you can learn to accept and embrace your current circumstances whilst taking steps forward to help you get better.

The process of dealing with an injury is very universal, so despite feeling like you are the only one going through what you are, you will probably find others have had similar experiences at some point in their lives. Yes, you are special but so is everyone else. Realizing this can help you let go of your own melodrama, so talk to others about how you feel.

Practice ahimsa. One of the ethical precepts of yoga is ahimsa, which means nonviolence. Like many things in life, it’s good to start learning to practice this on yourself before branching out into the world. It sounds easy to practice not hurting yourself but again and again, I find myself teaching this. Your body is the most amazing gift you have, it is incredible, take good care of it.

Yoga is not about advancing your physical practice, it is easy to get distracted by that. The real yoga happens practicing when you don’t want to as well as when you do. Take some time to reconnect with the bigger reasons of why you practice, be it because it makes you calmer, more focused or enhances your wellbeing. Remind yourself of that and work with what you have.

Have you ever been injured? What did you learn from it?

 

Guest Post – Nata Moraru tells how yoga has changed her life

“Home is neither here nor there, home is within you or nowhere at all.” Herman Hesse

One of my favourites quotes. Always liked it but never felt it 100% even if I thought I did. It was just after I started to do yoga (about a year ago) when I truly felt it. With all my bones, chest and water.

I felt in love with yoga the first time I went. I went for the body, stayed for the mind and soul. Because at the beginning I didn’t feel much changes in my body (the body changes came later and they were amazing), but my mind and soul was like a cherry tree in spring. During Savasana (relaxation) I started to feel that “home within” that Hesse is talking about. And it was amazing. I felt the whole universe is in my chest. I felt like I was lifted from the mat and at the same time was melting in the floor. Never felt that before. It was truly amazing. I always had a “special relationship” with water but since I started to do yoga it became stronger. When I am doing yoga I feel like I’m the whole sea and a boat that is floating on it. Both at the same time. Very interesting feeling. One time during Savasana I had tears in my eyes, totally unexpected, like the sea I was feeling inside me, that I always see an feel during yoga flowed through my eyes. Same water, same salt. At that moment I felt one with everything. I felt home. The “oneness”.

The breath is the bridge between mind and body and a very powerful tool.
I started to feel my body differently. I wasn’t ashamed of it anymore (as I’ve been my whole life, because of my twisted spine and because I was always very skinny and so many people were reminding me about it every day and telling me I should eat more).
And I think that’s why it started to respond to all the exercises. Because I started to feel my body differently. I also started to become more aware of my body and how I was standing outside of yoga.

Nata-before-and-after

Before and after photographs show how Nata has gained weight as she has become more in tune with her body

I stopped hiding my back (as I’ve been always doing, with long hair or hoodies). I’m not ashamed of my back and body anymore. It feels really good. I gained about 11kg since I started to do yoga, even my eating habits didn’t change. I feel healthy and feel good in my own body.

Then the pain disappeared. The back pain, I had my whole life, especially past 5-6 years when I couldn’t stand up for more than two hours without having killing pain in my back. I few weeks ago, after a very long day at work, about 12 hours standing up I noticed that I have no pain in my back, at all. Yes, my feet were hurting my arm was tired from holding the heavy camera, but no pain in my back. My lower back that was always in pain.
It’s an amazing feeling – not to be in pain, after so many hours of standing up, when a year ago I had to crawl out of bed because of the pain (it hurt too much just to sit up from lying so I always had to crawl out to the floor then stand up).

This x-ray of Nata’s spine shows her scoliosis clearly.

I had a twisted spine since I can remember. I think I was about 7-8 years old when my mum noticed that my back was just a little bit uneven, and we had the bad luck to go to a doctor that didn’t really know what he was doing and only cared for the money. I started to do some exercises with him, and some pretty “violent” and painful massage when he was pushing my bones, I found out later that It was very bad for my back and in no time from a slightly uneven back my spine became S shape and nobody couldn’t help me.

Unmeasurable gratitude to Helen for all her help. I am very lucky and thank the gods to have decided that winter day of 1st December to go online and look for yoga classes in Liverpool and to have found Helen’s class. Over the last year I have tried to go 3 times a week because I think it’s important to go regularly. There are many more things I could say about how yoga makes me feel and how it changed my life but sometimes there are not enough words…

Don’t just go to church, be the church. Don’t just go to yoga, be yoga. Don’t just lay on the grass, be the grass. Don’t just. Be. Be.come one.

Bless.

Namaste x

This post was written by Nata Moraru. As well as being a dedicated yogini, Nata is also a photographer, you may have seen some of the photo’s she has taken of me on instagram recently, you can find her photography here on Facebook.

How to start your own yoga self practice at home

Finding time for yoga can be hard. Life gets so busy and there are always more things to be done than can be done. The busier we get the more useful the yoga can be, everybody needs time to relax. So whether you are finding it hard to get to class as often as you like or if you would like to practice between classes, here are some tips.

  1. Set a time for your practice and defend it. You need to make sure you have some time to yourself when you can do some yoga, it might just be 15 minutes. There will always be other things you could be doing so don’t let them take over, prioritise this time.
  2. Get your mat out. When the scheduled time arrives you may or may not want to practice but you should get your mat out regardless. Once you get started you will probably feel better, so put your mat out and see how it goes.
  3. Doing a short practice is a great start. It’s better to start short because then you are more likely to be able to find time and energy for it. Start with some sun salutations and the last 3 seated positions. If you have more time and energy then by all means do more but if this all you can do, it will still do you the world of good.
  4. Respect your body – sometimes you will be tired, ill or even injured. Sometimes this will mean you should rest completely or modify your practice, don’t beat yourself up. There is a principle in yoga called ahimsa it means non-violence start with yourself. If your unsure talk to a yoga teacher or medical professional, whichever is appropriate.
  5. Allow yourself some time for relaxation. Do not rush off your yoga mat give yourself some quality time to relax. If necessary set a timer, you need to allow at least 5 minutes. The timer will stop you rushing off because you feel busy but it will also allow you to relax more fully.
  6. Use a book or a dvd to motivate you. David Swenson created short versions of the ashtanga sequence which could be a great option if you’re busy or just starting to build up a practice. You can find this sequence in his book and his DVD. If you want to practice the full primary series, Kino MacGreggor has a great primary series DVD.
  7. Come to a Mysore style class. A Mysore style class is the traditional method of teaching Ashtanga Yoga. It is self practice with teacher’s assistance. This allows for much more personalised instruction as well as a personalised practice. These classes are suitable for all levels including complete beginners and are especially useful if you want to develop a self practice. If you are in Liverpool I teach Mysore style classes on Monday evening as well as running regular Mysore intensives.

Do you have a home yoga practice? What tips can you share to help others develop their yoga practice?

 

Bringing lessons from your yoga mat into your life…

Yoga sometimes feels like an escape from your day-to-day life, but who we are in day-to-day life gets brought onto our yoga mat and who we are on our yoga mat gets brought into our world. Each is practicing the other.

Sometimes having a practice like yoga in your life can seem selfish – putting some time aside for you when life is already so busy. However I have come to realise that I am more useful to others precisely because of my yoga practice.

Life is a journey. Sometimes we do things really well, and sometimes we know we could have done better, but for some reason we fell short. I am far from perfect. Yoga hasn’t turned me into some perfect being, but it has helped me to become progressively better and it has taught me to be more accepting when I am not as good as I’m aiming to be.

How yoga has helped me interact with other people better

I am becoming more present, which means I am noticing more about the world around me. I pay attention to what people are saying and sometimes I notice that there is more to what they are not saying than what’s on the surface. Yoga helps me to listen to the deeper meaning in communication.

I am becoming more patient. I understand that some things take time and that sometimes people are not perfect – because I know I am not.

I’m feeling more and more connected to humanity. Yoga teaches interdependence. Nothing is separate; everything is interdependent on everything else. Yoga helps me to feel more connected both to my environment and to my fellow humans. This may be easier with my peers and harder with people who do not share my values and lifestyle, but yoga has taught me to see my shared humanity in others and it continues to be something I practice when I interact with them.

How yoga has helped me in my life

I am comfortable achieving things that seem impossible. I know that with enough patient practice, even the most challenging things will become more possible. Yes sometimes I still feel scared to move out of my comfort zone, but I do it anyway. I observe the fear, acknowledge it and then enjoy transcending my own boundaries.

In becoming more present I am enjoying each moment more and more because I am experiencing it more fully. For me this is probably the biggest benefit of yoga and something I am always experiencing as my main focus while I practice. I know that the more focused I am when I practice the easier it will be for me to be present in my life.

I am also becoming more patient with myself. I know that sometimes life is not how I expect it to be and sometimes that can be challenging. Yoga teaches me how to deal with the curve balls life inevitably throws at me. Of course I don’t always know what to do about it but I am constantly becoming better equipped at dealing with it because of my regular yoga practice.

What about you? How is yoga changing the way you interact with yourself or others?

 

 

 

 

 

 

An exciting announcement and some reflections on the last seven years of teaching yoga

I have some really exciting news! I am going to tell it with a story because sometimes when changes happen it makes you reflect on the past.

I first started teaching yoga in 2008, seven years ago. I was lucky in that friends of mine with successful Ashtanga classes asked me to cover and then eventually take over their classes. In October 2008 I started my own class for the first time. I wanted to teach a traditional Ashtanga class, full primary series on a Friday evening. I wasn’t sure if anyone would come. I knew I loved this practice, I knew it had changed my life and I knew I wanted to share it. I figured there must be some people out there that would feel the same way as I did about it.

So I rented a space. The space I chose wasn’t the most picturesque yoga studio. It was just a space. It is the space I now teach all my public classes at, Hope Street Ltd on Arrad Street. The people who ran Hope Street Ltd were welcoming and friendly – they still are. I made my first website. It was very basic, I had never built a website before but I didn’t have any money so I started there. I made some flyers and walked around distributing them.

 3 yoga mats in original space on Arrad Street

small beginnings – 3 students

I showed up to teach my first class. Three people came. I knew them all, friends. I had students and we had a great time in those early days, the beginning of something of sharing this thing that meant so much to me, finding my voice as a teacher. It wasn’t enough to cover the rent. Sometimes one or two maybe even all of my students couldn’t come. Still I showed up. I believed that one day people would come and gradually they did.

From this class was born the beautiful community that is now Ashtanga Yoga Liverpool. I still teach that class every Friday and it is still and will always be precious to me. Even though I now have hundreds of students, I am still honored when someone shows up to learn from me. I ask myself often why are they here? I ask because it helps me serve my community better and yoga teaching is first and foremost a service.

the new yoga room

the yoga new space

Why am I telling you all this history? Because from early September, we will be moving to a new venue. The venue is based on Lord Street in the City Centre. It has more space and is lovely, warm, bright and quiet, and I am sure we will be very happy there. We are moving with Hope Street Limited who have looked after us so well over the years. The thought of moving made me realise how much of myself I have poured into the space where I currently teach. It also made me realise how much effort and energy and love and friendship my students have brought. For a moment I was sad even though the new venue is much better but I understand that Ashtanga Yoga Liverpool is not a space it is a community. I hope you like your new home! I will send a newsletter out with the exact date of the move and how to find it as soon as it is confirmed please sign up to my newsletter if you haven’t already to stay informed.

Measure your progress in yoga not by the yoga positions you can do, but by the person you become.

Modern society thrives on progress. It seems like we are always being pressurised to achieve more, earn more and buy more. This rarely leads to lasting happiness because there is always more you can have and do. With social media images of bendy yogis bombarding your newsfeed, and with pressures to achieve coming from all directions, it’s easy to bring this mindset to your yoga practice. This is such a shame because if you are always striving to achieve more, you will never surrender and accept this moment, just as it is, enjoying the real fruit of yoga.

People practice yoga for all sorts of reasons and I understand that you may want to become more flexible. You may be really tight and need to get more flexible in order to enjoy normal healthy movement and posture. If you practice regularly this will happen, whether you strive for it or not. If you have been practicing yoga for many years, as I have, you may be very capable of doing all sorts of positions that you never dreamed were possible, and yet you still may seek progress in what you can do. I do. I love to challenge myself to do more, but the main benefit of this is what it brings to my life. It helps me to stay calm in challenging and new situations. It helps me to be more present for my friends and family, it helps me to believe that anything is possible, and hopefully it helps me to be a better person. Very few people really care, or even know, what yoga positions 18 years of yoga has made it possible for me to do. But they do care about what kind of person I am.

If you practice yoga regularly you will become more flexible. There is no need to worry about that. Practice, surrender, and use your practice to become more present. Sometimes it will be wonderful. Sometimes it will be challenging to really be here. Practice, practice and practice some more. Then bring your practice into your life.

Sometimes as a teacher, I notice that the people that seem to understand it the most, are actually the tightest. They have had to tune into their breath. They have realised that it is going to take a while. And they have surrendered. I am not saying this to be harsh to the bendy people. I happen to be one myself, but I think sometimes within the yoga community, we forget this and we think the bendy people are the great yogis. This is not always the case. They may not have even done that much yoga. They might be a gymnast or a dancer. They might really struggle with other aspects of the practice too. We are all different, but the real journey is an inward one, and that’s where the real peace lies.

Do you ever put pressure on yourself to be better at yoga? How has yoga had an impact on your life and or who you are?

Teaching from experience. Why practicing yoga every day is important to my teaching

I practice yoga six days a week. As a yoga teacher I feel this is essential for me. I understand not all yoga teachers do this and that I am very fortunate to have the time to do so.

I find there are a number of myths among yoga students about yoga teachers and their yoga practice. So here is my insider view from my own perspective.

Myth one : Don’t you know it all?

Ha ha! Nope. Thanks for your faith in me but I will never know it all. Physically, philosophically and spiritually, yoga is a vast subject. No one person in the world knows it all and I am no exception. There is always more to learn….

Myth two : Are there yoga poses that you can’t do?

There are many yoga poses that I can’t do and I am grateful for that. I find working on a challenging yoga pose teaches me a great deal about myself and is a great way to develop my sense of being in the here and now.

Myth three: Aren’t you doing yoga all day when you are teaching?

Yoga teaching and practicing are entirely different activities. When I teach my focus is external. I am looking at my students. I tend not to demonstrate that much as a teacher. This is because I can’t see my students when I am demonstrating and I can’t help them. Sometimes a visual cue is necessary and helpful. When I do demonstrate a yoga pose in class I am still not really practicing yoga. I am talking to the class checking they understand and checking they are okay. My focus is not on my breath my focus is on my students. So I still need time to focus on my own practice.

I learn from this yoga practice. By practicing daily I practice on days when I really don’t want to. I watch my inner resistance and I learn to be with it. Teaching requires me to give from myself. When I teach I give everything I have in that moment, it’s a full-hearted effort. I am there for my students in whatever way I can be, in that moment. My yoga practice helps me stoke my own fire so that I can give more.

My yoga practice helps me to be a better teacher. It helps me to be more present when I teach. It helps me to be aware of my body when I adjust. It helps me to remember what is like to find something challenging. It teaches me what it is like to be a student. It reminds me why I love yoga so much.

For all these reasons and more, I practice yoga daily. My students inspire me to do so through their own dedication and I am grateful to them and my practice for all that yoga gives.

Do you ever practice yoga when you don’t feel like it? Do you think it’s important for a yoga teacher to have a regular yoga practice themselves? Share your thoughts.

Great Expectations – Going with the flow at Christmas

Christmas is coming… are you filled with joy, excitement, or maybe a mixture of many feelings. Christmas means different things to different people, and this can lead to very different expectations. It can be a day for families to come together and yet for some it can make them feel even more alone. Whatever your perspective or situation it is important not to place too high an expectation on this one day of many but instead to live each day as fully as you can. It can be a day of giving, of sharing or feeling like you’ll never have enough or of feeling like you have too much. It is a day of excesses. Everything is heightened and yet it is just a day….and like every other day, for all our hopes and dreams about it, we do not have complete control over it or the people we share it with.

Helen practicing yoga in the snow

Yoga in the snow

People are often amazed that I practice yoga even on Christmas day. For me I feel I need yoga on this day of all days to ground me to help me see each moment for what it is. To help me to see what other people may be asking of me. To help me to be not in my idea of how this day should be but in the actual moment as it unravels. I get many benefits from my yoga practice but the most important one for me is to train my mind to be more present. I practice this awareness on the yoga mat but I also bring it off the yoga mat into every aspect of my life. Yoga helps me immensely to embody each moment. Sure I have days where I get on the mat and my mind is totally distracted. I have days where my mind is so distracted that my yoga mat is the last place I want to be but those days of overstimulation are when I need yoga the most. I just take it one breath at a time.

Practicing yoga at Christmas time can seem selfish – how you can find the time

When your around your friends and your family it can seem strange or selfish to disappear for an hour or so to practice yoga. Is it really though? I feel I can be of much more use to others if I have practiced yoga. I am fortunate in that my friends and family understand that I practice yoga daily, that it is part of who I am. That said, if I feel like it is conflicting with their day I will discuss it with them. I can be flexible (pun intended) about when I practice. If you feel your friends and family do not want you to practice yoga talk to them about it. Tell them why it is important for you to find this time to practice yoga and the benefits you get from it. Be flexible, make your practice shorter, find somewhere out of other people’s way or practice at another time of day when others are busy or before they get up. Who knows they may even want to join you…

As the day unravels keep an open mind if you feel disappointed is it because you are comparing reality to your expectation of what you think reality should be. If you are dissagreeing with someone else are you taking the time to understand where they are coming from? If you are having a conversation with someone are you really listening? Of course with all the yoga in the world conflict can still arise life can be as challenging as it can be delightful. Yoga can give you some tools and some space to experience each moment more fully.

I hope you have a wonderful Christmas. Please share below how yoga helps you through the festive season.

 

It is not about the asana, no really it isn’t….how to get beyond the fancy yoga poses

Seeing pictures of people in advanced yoga positions can be inspiring. One of the benefits of yoga is an increase in flexibility. Over time if you practice regularly, your yoga practice will change, you will be able to do things you never thought possible, but hopefully you will realise yoga has so much more to offer than freaky party tricks.

People practice yoga for all sorts of reasons. I am not going to tell you why to practice, you can work that out for yourself. I expect that your reasons will evolve, they will change over time as your practice deepens. I’m not going to tell you not to work on the yoga positions either. We all have yoga positions we can’t do and I think it’s great to work at them. I love doing something impossible everyday but not because it looks cool on instagram or wherever but because it challenges me. It doesn’t just challenge my body, but it challenges my mind, my ego, my beliefs. I learn to step outside what I think is possible. Sometimes I have to accept that I can do less on a particular day than I normally can and sometimes I have to believe that I can do more. The truth is it doesn’t matter which positions someone finds impossible it could be reaching to touch your toes in a forward bend or grabbing your ankles in a backbend. Where is your mind when you are doing it, where is your breath, are you here? Does your yoga practice help you to be a better person? Are you calmer, happier, more focused? These are the questions you should be asking.

Social media and yoga poses – Inspiring?

Over the last few years the bombardment of images of people doing advanced yoga moves on photographs or videos has increased. I sometimes find these images and videos inspiring and helpful. It can be interesting to watch someone else doing positions that are challenging. Sometimes I post pictures of myself and even made a video recently with the same intention. These things can be useful. They can also be intimidating because behind the video you can’t see all the hours of dedication that made that possible, you can just see someone doing something impossible with relative ease.  As a yoga teacher sometimes I feel like there is some kind of pressure on me to be some amazing gymnast. No such pressure exists of course. I have a commitment to myself and my students to practice, to learn and continue to learn more so that I can share more but this learning isn’t just physical. I have to understand what it is like to practice, to be a student of yoga philosophy as well as asana, to be on my path and to practice diligently. I have to understand what it is to be physically unable to do something again and again and again until one day I can. I do commit to this daily both on and off my mat.

It is not about the asana…

This is so easy to say. As we can sit there and smile at each other like the spiritually realised beings that we are. We can say it again and again but ultimately we have to learn it. If we are focused on an asana obsessed even, should we deny this experience, suppress it, deny that it is there and repeat the phrase, it is not about the asana again and again. To do so is to try too hard to be something that you are not in that moment. It is natural when when you practice asana and you can’t do something to want to be able to do it. As you practice you will probably find your habitual thought patterns unravel. They might not always be pretty, your ego might not be as spiritually realised as you think it should be, I know mine isn’t ;-). That’s okay, embrace it all, allow yourself to even experience any negative thoughts or emotions, accept that you experiencing these that but know that it is nonsense. Laugh at yourself, share your experience, just know that this is not what yoga is about. Your mind is just clinging to whatever it understands and your ego is driven by progress, this okay but it isn’t important. If your mind clings to the importance of asana at some point it will have to let go, the practice itself will teach you, surrender to it and bring yourself to your mat, just as you are. So yes yoga is not about the asana but you practice asana so it’s okay to think about it, it can even be transformative…..
What is yoga about to you?  Do you find videos/ images of yogis in advanced positions inspiring or intimidating?